IFPI反盜March tomorrow....

所有音樂製作的相關問題,包含系統的整合、製作過程、成品的選擇、製作的經驗與相關技巧、心得,以及非音樂軟硬體區所能解決的問題,歡迎來此交流。 注意:本討論區不討論與非法下載有關問題

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Jonathan
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Post by Jonathan »

To Michael…
I have some different views regarding what you said about piracy situation in USA and Europe. The following are 100% true:

1. I lived in Germany from 92-96; I have witnessed German people buying pirated CDs at street markets (the vendor told me that those pirated CDs were from Holland and France). I have once bought a 2 CD set of U2 Live in a big record store in Frankfurt, it turned out to be the “bootleg” version, which someone re-recorded (or stole the tracks) from the mixing console during U2’s concert tour in 1993. The U2 has never released its Live Album in audio CD format; yet, you can find that in Germany.
2. More than 20% of Germany’s small-size firms (with less than 15 employees) use unauthorized copies of Microsoft Office or other software. This figure was released by “STERN” (a local German magazine). The percentage is even higher in UK and France.
3. In the street market of Brussels, I had seen many Belgians搶購LV and Gucci bags, of course, they’re counterfeits from Hong Kong (China).
4. I have a friend who has a factory in Mexico, making counterfeit watches (from Rolex to IWC, covers all famous brands) and sell to USA, Canada and Europe. In 2001, he sold 300,000 pieces!!! Amazing, isn’t it? According to my friend, the “white collar” in USA are the major customers.

All I’m saying is that Piracy and Counterfeit can be found almost EVERYWHERE. It even happens in the countries which we often think that have well-educated and law-abiding citizens. Again, it has to go down to the fundamental of Economics: where there’s demand, supply will follow…

And I have some other comments at the 404 March:
Watching the march from TV and some other entertainment news programs, it shows another example of how easily the music industry and related business can make a fool of themselves. A campaign with justified appeal turns out to be a third class soap opera with childish punch lines. I feel very sad and disappointed about it.

First, what’s the “public interest” involved in this campaign? Did the organizer accent the “public interest” embodied with anti-piracy appeal? All we see is the interest of the artists, of the songwriters, of the staffs of recording company, and the TV stations and Radio stations. Of course they are “命運共同體”, but in general, people wouldn’t care less if there’s any detriment to YOUR interest.

It’s also foolish for the radio and other media to Threaten the people. “If you keep buying pirated CDs, there will be no music at all in the future.” Tell me, who’s gonna buy that kind of shit?! The radio stations stop playing pop music simply trying to horrify the listeners. What will the radio stations react if the listeners don’t mind at all or feel even better that way? Everybody knows that the radio stations needs the advertisement from record company to survive, and everybody knows that the radio stations will continue to play new pop songs….so what’s the meaning to show your selfishness by intimidating the listeners?

Another stupid move is to make the wrong comparison: they show the sales volume of Jacky Chang’s “吻別” and A-mei’s “姊妹” and the sales volume of their latest albums which amount to 70% drop and blame everything on piracy. Of course piracy is one of the reasons but not ALL, the quality of their new or latest albums are just way behind their previous works. Why didn’t the record companies and their A&R directors 深切反省??? I saw the marketing director from Universal Studio talk about the box office of Jurassic Park I, II and III. He claims that the Taiwan’s box office for Jurassic Park III is only one third of the First Jurassic Park and blame it on pirated VCD…That’s absolutely ABSURD! The box office of Jurassic Park III drops in EVERYWHERE around the world, not only in Taiwan. The reason is: That film SUCKS!!! Just as simple as that! It’s a common phenomenon that, with the popularity of DVD player in each household, many people would rather wait for the movie studios to release DVD and they can rent it and view it at home. Finding scapegoat won’t help the industry at all………!!!! From the surface, it seems that the industry unites itself firmly against piracy, but deep inside, it’s pathetic to see that some of them didn’t even know where’s rotten and how to find the cure…!!!

I guess I have really said enough…maybe too much!
To be a Rock and not to Roll..!!!
ondine
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Post by ondine »

關於盜版與正版之辯,
我到交大資科的BBS站的nctu版去看,他們多數認為:

1.流行音樂發片率太快,不夠精緻,所以不想買正版。

2.台灣CD太貴,音樂品質卻並不值那個價錢。往往一張專輯只有其中幾首好聽。

3.如果有非常好聽的專輯,還是會買正版。(這點我同意,以我為例,只要齊豫一出英文歌,我一定買,且買正版)

4.他們覺得太多的製作費是花在宣傳,而非音樂本身,故CD的價格是不合理的。



以上不是我的意見,應該算是消費者的意見,我個人認為做音樂的人似乎也應該想些辦法去弭平這些與消費者想法不同的落差。

不過甚麼叫品質好的音樂,值得商榷,往往我覺得很糟糕的歌,我的那些國中小朋友卻愛聽得很。所以也許這是選曲的問題。我個人非常討厭一般專輯在選曲時,故意把不同風格的曲子(如抒情、搖滾)選在同一張唱片中,因為這種作法讓不喜歡搖滾或舞曲風格的我不願意買那張唱片,即使那張唱片裡有一兩首很棒的抒情歌。

我反而會願意買整張專輯都是同一種風格的,我想風格劃分得清楚,消費者可以各選所好,不是很好嗎?可是似乎流行音樂界不太認同這種想法,選曲時一定是一半快歌,一半慢歌。僅有少數唱片是風格一致,我喜歡的專輯,如許美靜的第一、二張國語專輯,之後的則是混合風格,我就很討厭,因此也不再買她的專輯。


大家說一說自己的看法吧。
Joey Tribiany(16)

Post by Joey Tribiany(16) »

給支持盜版者
我到認為網路警察應該直接從BBS裡面去抓承認支持盜版的人.

1.流行音樂發片率太快,不夠精緻,所以不想買正版。
> 買盜版正版不都因為想聽嗎?想聽就該去買正版的. 難道喜歡保時捷,可是太貴了.就去偷來開個幾天就丟掉嗎?

2.台灣CD太貴,音樂品質卻並不值那個價錢。往往一張專輯只有其中幾首好聽。
>日本的CD是我們的兩倍以上,台灣的CD會太貴嗎?

3.如果有非常好聽的專輯,還是會買正版。(這點我同意,以我為例,只要齊豫一出英文歌,我一定買,且買正版)
> 不好聽就不買,為什麼要買盜版?不就是想聽嗎?想聽不想花錢就去偷?

4.他們覺得太多的製作費是花在宣傳,而非音樂本身,故CD的價格是不合理的。
> 他們知道製作費怎麼算嗎?怎麼花嗎?有想過多少幕後人花了幾個月甚至幾年來籌畫的東西值不值錢?CD價格不合理就不該買. 一件Cefiro不到100萬的轎車,跟Benz3,5百萬的價錢合理嗎???為什麼還有人買? 學生如果都是這種想法將來就是強盜了.
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Post by Paul Fang »

Jonathan是唱片界前輩,他說的話具有一定的份量,大家可以好好參考,我想這是愛之深、責之切的批評。

我個人的觀點是,盜版的CD是非法的,這是沒有辦法被匡正的,偷偷的私下販賣,躲警察,或許是每個國家都有,不過光天化日的販賣,那就跟光華商場的大補帖廠商一樣,如果是這樣,我們也可以在藥局買賣搖頭丸,在玩具點賣槍。我以為非法的事情就是非法的,盜版是違法,政府不管,這是政府無能......

MP3是無法可管的,而且我們就算不透過網路下載,還有很多方法得到,聽MP3跟在唱片看歌手打歌其實沒有兩樣,那都不是"成品",有了MP3的參考,我們更可以挑選自己認為值得購買的商品,至於只聽MP3不買CD的人,就算你抓光的MP3,還是無法讓他們買CD,對他們來說,MP3跟CD的Quality是一樣的。

我們覺得流行唱片不好,最多就是不買,好像我們選舉一樣,你最多就是不投,大家都不買的唱片,自然就得淘汰,這是很簡單的市場機制,供過於求自然就要減產,品質下降自然要受唾棄,這跟他們活不活的下去無關,如果唱片公司發的的CD真的遜,那就讓它倒吧! 不過,這不能成為盜版合法化的藉口。

我覺得現在社會對盜版的觀念都有點太"明目張膽"了,我舉個例子,Jonathan兄介紹他的朋友來買Audio Interface for NoteBook,我跟他說,StudioVision已經倒了,沒有版權,我可以COPY給你,我沒有代理的軟體,或許我可以COPY給你,但是DP3,我是MOTU的代理商,我不能看著自己家裡擺著正版軟體,我還去幫你安裝K版,就好像GigaStudio的道理是一樣。
結果他說:我不管,反正你就來我家幫我裝好,我不會跟別人的說。
這樣的例子很多,我發覺很多時候User根本不管你代理什麼,好像我們在Microsoft門口跟裡面的員工說,給我一片XP中文版吧!!

同樣的,Ondine兄說的交大觀點,如果CD太貴,我就不買,事實上我很久沒買CD了,我這一年來,唯一買的就是Misia的Everything,還是單曲唱片,我也聽MP3,我還會把它壓成CD,不過我不會去架站,我也不會去賣。

其實,即使到百貨公司的專櫃,現在買的很多名牌都有能是假的,這不是很恐怖的現象嗎??

我很同意Jonathan對政府的說法,大家看看聯合報,昨天的活動只有頭版的報導與政府有關,其他都是歌手的看法,沒有社論、沒有具體結論。
游院長用了一堆歌曲的Title作成一段順口溜,什麼盜版商"你好毒"、唱片業"太委曲",根本是作秀....然後宣示成立專責警力、準備修改著作權法加重刑責、打擊盜版不遺餘力....That's all bull shit

那有哪些立委去聲援,陳學聖、林重謀、段宜康、陳建銘...etc,這些人你看過他們跟唱片界有什麼關係?? 想像一下他們唱孫燕姿的歌、還是去聽張學友的演唱會?? 還不是作秀,正式的政治版一點都沒有深入的批評....

我有很多客戶去參加遊行,他們多半很單純,只知道認真的作音樂,其他的他們也不知道,他們只是覺得這次的活動跟他們自己的權益有關,而且有意義,於是他們去了,還是為他們鼓個掌吧!!
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Post by Dragon_Huang »

這裡面有一些觀點我很認同,但是有一些我不是這麼贊成...

當我們用另一個觀點來看,這也是一個很好的唱片圈洗牌機會..
也許就像是一個物極必反的原理. 唱片公司一直Complain說,出一張片要花好幾千萬..
不過,真正花在音樂製作的卻沒有這麼多..壓片工廠也沒有收到一片30~40的成本..
大都是被宣傳費給花光了.
如果說,做唱片的人每一個相關行業的人,都敢拍胸保證不拿回扣. 我想成本還可以降低.

五大唱片一直威脅聽眾,說如果唱片公司倒了,就會沒有音樂可以聽..
我的想法是,倒了就倒了,沒什麼大不了..
(倒了更好,這樣我更有機會可以往上爬) :p
只要有一點報酬,還是有很多人會再進入這個圈子.
就像很多人有的Project Studio . 不也可以做出很好Quality的音樂..

這樣講好了..
大家都知道編一首A版的,大概在35000上下..但是這又是誰定的?
難道15000就不能編嗎??

像是Johnson以前在我這裡做的片子,不也可以用幾十萬的製作費,做到一般的品質嗎?? 那為何又一定要500萬才能做一張??

這些種種可以講一句簡單一點的.就是大家都想賺錢,大家有機會也都會A錢...

當然我也會..這是人性.

Following word is POINT !

人不為己,天誅地滅

讓市場機制去決定誰贏誰輸.

我們反正也沒有爬到高位過.

那又何必擔心會掉下來???
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Post by DIGIDOLL »

1.流行音樂發片率太快,不夠精緻,所以不想買正版。
其實台灣的發片率不算快,最近已經少很多了...
怎樣才算精緻?你告訴我+.+"

2.台灣CD太貴,音樂品質卻並不值那個價錢。往往一張專輯只有其中幾首好聽。
日本的CD大概是台灣的2~3倍價格,可是也沒聽說有盜版,大家還是願意花那麼多錢去買,你覺得日本的曲子有每張每首都好聽的嗎?好不好聽,每個人的標準都不同...

3.如果有非常好聽的專輯,還是會買正版。
看人吧...我相信有人如此,但不會買正版的人,就是不會買...

4.他們覺得太多的製作費是花在宣傳,而非音樂本身,故CD的價格是不合理的。
那多少才合理?99元?
學生裡有多少人知道製作一張唱片成本管銷費用要多少的?
那買盜版的是合理的嗎+.+?

總結...
如果我是消費者
我當然希望CD越便宜越好
只是覺得買盜版講這種理由
很好笑...
說你想買便宜的CD不就得了?

不過說真的
買原版的
很有成就感說~^.^~
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Post by YoUnG »

關於盜版與正版之辯,
我到交大資科的BBS站的nctu版去看,他們多數認為:

1.流行音樂發片率太快,不夠精緻,所以不想買正版。
>發片率快慢應該跟精不精緻是兩回事吧......我不了解交大ㄉ意思...

2.台灣CD太貴,音樂品質卻並不值那個價錢。往往一張專輯只有其中幾首好聽。
>CD貴....學生我能了解也能體會....尤其是某種音樂ㄉ天字一號支持者ㄉ學生樂痞....往往都是省幾頓飯才有一張CD...像我要ㄉ黑膠唱片台灣都是"超"小盤商..每張起跳價都是700...可是這也是沒辦法ㄉ事...CD和LP的價錢都是台灣的商人定的....台灣商人有台灣商人ㄉ衡量...也清楚有些國外網站和唱片行並不是這樣賣ㄉ......但沒辦法.....我愛正版...生在台灣我必須遵守"由台灣商人販賣ㄉ市價"...但餓不了肚子ㄉ學生會去追求"由學生平民販賣ㄉ市價"....但我相信他們也是最愛正版的...而至於交大說ㄉ音樂品質我是認為因人而異吧....

3.如果有非常好聽的專輯,還是會買正版。(這點我同意,以我為例,只要齊豫一出英文歌,我一定買,且買正版)
>那是一定要的啦........任誰都會......

4.他們覺得太多的製作費是花在宣傳,而非音樂本身,故CD的價格是不合理的。
>應該是藝人的經紀公司吧...不是唱片公司喔...台灣好多經紀公司老喜歡用"合約"在藝人和所有製作公司間來獲得最大利潤...奸....


以上不是我的意見,應該算是消費者的意見,我個人認為做音樂的人似乎也應該想些辦法去弭平這些與消費者想法不同的落差。

不過甚麼叫品質好的音樂,值得商榷,往往我覺得很糟糕的歌,我的那些國中小朋友卻愛聽得很。所以也許這是選曲的問題。我個人非常討厭一般專輯在選曲時,故意把不同風格的曲子(如抒情、搖滾)選在同一張唱片中,因為這種作法讓不喜歡搖滾或舞曲風格的我不願意買那張唱片,即使那張唱片裡有一兩首很棒的抒情歌。

我反而會願意買整張專輯都是同一種風格的,我想風格劃分得清楚,消費者可以各選所好,不是很好嗎?可是似乎流行音樂界不太認同這種想法,選曲時一定是一半快歌,一半慢歌。僅有少數唱片是風格一致,我喜歡的專輯,如許美靜的第一、二張國語專輯,之後的則是混合風格,我就很討厭,因此也不再買她的專輯。


大家說一說自己的看法吧。
[/quote]
Michael Hammar

.

Post by Michael Hammar »

These are my thoughts after the "march":

1. It's a joke... publicity stunt to the bone!

2. There isn't going to be any change. Nobody in Taiwan cares. So why don't we just close most of domestic A&R Departments? ... just like BMG has done.... It seems that foreign CDs still do okay enough so the major companies will just have to be happy with that....

And everyone will have to be happy with even lower quality standards now since we won't have any money to spend on production, Neves, etc....

3. I still don't understand the complaining of CD's being expensive... When I was living in Vienna, Austria, a CD would cost almost NT900! Look at Japan, and the US... It's just a stupid excuse.

4. Jonathan, yes you are right about "bootleg CDs" in Europe but they are nowhere as widespread as in Taiwan. Having lived in Europe, I do know this. But somehow, the problem in Taiwan is 500% more severe. There is no respect for intellectual property at all... and it will continue to be so.

5. Since nothing's going to change, why not just be happy and do other stuff? So far, we at Alfa Music have been lucky enough to make money so we're not going out of business in the near future! But I do see the day coming when record companies will be downsized to 10% current size, radio promotions mostly and little or no TV, and pricing of CDs lowered 2/3. It will be the "age of little record companies". Maybe... I don't know but that seems to be the only option left. Or die...

This is too depressing, let's talk other stuff!

Michael
TS

寫得好

Post by TS »

Jonathan 先生的英語文章, 遣詞精準, 造句合於文法, 容易讓讀者正確了解作者原意. 建議在版上使用英文討論的諸位音樂家 , 能朝此水準邁進, 否則有時偶而出現的怪異拼字或文法, 要費好多心思揣測.

另外, 建議 Jonathan 先生將您的兩篇大作以中文表達, 嘉惠更多網友.
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Post by Dragon_Huang »

To TS :
Johnathan 英文好是應該的..沒記錯的話,他是在紐約那裡唸書的高材生...
Michael英文也好..因為他是外國人..嘿嘿..

對於我們這些沒喝過洋墨水的..就不要要求太多了...

我連美國都沒去過.. :cry:
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